cruise2asia.myfreeforum.org

[Lyra]

I sent an email to a number of yachts who have participated.

The bulk of my email read as follows:

Hi! I hope you don't mine me writing to you, but I found your boat name on the Vasco Da Gama website and wondered if you could advise me on whether to join the rally or not?

My partner and I are planning our journey down the Red Sea next year. We will be staying in Abu Tig from October this year and then set off, slowly, towards India, hopping along the coast in the spring of next year. We have been toying with the idea of joining the rally but a couple of things are putting us off. Firstly, it does not allow us enough time to see everything that we'd like to see (we would like to sail to Jordan). Secondly, we have heard some scare stories about the rally from the point of view of safety and price.

I'd like to ask two questions, if I may:
What advantage to you was making the journey with the rally, rather than making your own way?
Would you recommend the rally as a good way of transiting the Red Sea?

So far I have had the following responses:

We have now spent 3 winters in Egypt and like it a lot.

Last year we came with the Vasco da Gama from Turkey to Hurghada and we know Lo the organizer and of course the other boats that came on the rally.

You ask if you should go with the VDG rally and I will answer based on your different points:

Not enough time to see everything - It depends of how much time you think you need, the VDG rally is probably the slowest rally you will ever find. Each section of the rally is free sailing and all the boats meet up at key points. For the section from the Suez Canal down to Hurghada which is only 170nm we had for example more than 3 weeks. This is plenty of time and we had enough time to go to Jordan and spent close to 10 days there. The fact that the rally is so slow and relaxed was one of the reasons we joined.

Safety 1 - Some rumors seem to have been circulating regarding a great number of boats that hit reefs on the second VDG rally and here are some details; One boat got stuck on a reef between Port Suez and Hurghada and it was thought to be a write off, but some of the other boats managed to pull and finally sail her off after a day. The reason why the boat did hit the reef was that he had no proper charts and some of us other boats had actually more or less forced him to at least get a big chart over the gulf of Suez (which is not precise enough to show individual reefs) so it was 100% due to bad navigation. Another boat hit a reef outside Port Sudan and had to be abandoned. Again the reef was actually marked with a marker buoy which is rare in the Red Sea, and it is very clearly shown on the charts so it is highly probable that the incident was due to a navigation error. Some of the other boats touched reefs at various places but none had any damage.

Whichever way you look at it there is no way to put the blame for any of those incidents on the rally organization. Each boat is responsible for their own navigation and must be expected to have proper paper charts, preferably C-Map or other electronic charts and an original copy of the Red Sea pilot (it is amazing how many boats are cheapskates and use old photocopies). You could perhaps argue that the organization should check the equipment of each boat before departure. Furthermore, in both of the serious cases mentioned above it was an advantage to be with the rally to get help on the reefs, the first one was fully salvaged, and in the second incident the captain and crew together with expensive equipment was taken on other rally boats. This would not have been possible if they had been traveling on their own. To say that it would be a safety issue with the reefs by being in the rally is simply untrue.

Safety 2 - Some people argue that it is safer to travel on your own through the pirate zone by Somalia because a rally is a bigger target. Impossible to say, and it is up to you to decide. This spring you have two rallies coming through heading north, one is the VDG from India to Turkey, and the second is the Blue Water Rally and they all seem happy to be going through the pirate zone with a rally.

Price - Some rumors were also raised about the price of the VDG rally, and I will not even bother to discuss that in detail. You will have recuperated the rally fee (by getting free moorings in various marinas, and a big discount through the Suez Canal) by the time you are in Hurghada, so how anyone could possibly complain about that is beyond me. All you have to do is to compare the price yourself with other rallies. The 18 month Blue Water Rally for example cost over 20'000 GBP that is around 1'100 GBP per month. No one in their right mind can possibly complain about the price for VDG.

I received a copy of an email from Rene Tiemessen on Alondra to what I think is someone on a boat in Marmaris. Rene was on the same VDG rally as us. Although I like Rene I think that he has a personal vendetta against Lo and his reasoning in this matter is not rational. I feel quite strongly about this and will therefore debunk some of the statements found in his email:

Rene writes:
"We departed the rally due to the incompetence of it's organizer Lo...." this is a personal opinion, and anyone is of course allowed to make their own opinions but I think that unless it can be properly substantiated it is totally unfair to publish in articles and spread among sailors. There was huge friction between Rene and Lo for reasons not understood by myself and the majority of the other rally participants, but that should remain a private matter.

"It brings others in danger" here Rene is insinuating that because Lo is 69 he is no longer fit to organize a rally and by doing so he brings others in danger. What a load of rubbish. All sailors in a rally have to be responsible for their own actions and the organization is there for guidance and not 24h hand holding. Lo can in no way be held responsible of other skipper's bad navigation on the reefs. Rene also insinuates that Lo did nothing or little to help out with the reef incidents, which is also not true.

"I could provide you with email addresses that will state the same" this is his weakest statement because not many of the participants will side with Rene's opinions regarding Lo and the rally.

To answer your summary questions, I would say that each sailor and boat is different but the advantage of joining the VDG rally to go to the Red Sea or India is; to gain experience in new waters, to ease some of the sometimes complicated paperwork, to share the experience with other sailors, and to make new friends. Some like to sail in solitude, others prefer some company. When you go through the Red Sea you should really take advantage and try to experience as much of the natural beauty of the barren landscape, mountains, and fantastic underwater life as possible. Cruising on the reefs can however be lonely and it is nice to navigate, dive, exchange fishing tips, etc with other boats. Yes I would recommend the VDG rally as a good way of transiting the Red Sea.

As I write this I am guessing that it might actually be you who got the email from Rene in the first place, and that you are now doing your own research by contacting other participants which is a very good idea. I got a copy of the email from Jim Hughes on Dragon Song but with no recipient name. If I am correct in my assessment then it would be great if you could also circulate counter opinions such as mine for others to see.

Per Kjellqvist S/Y Sybaris

This from Monique (s/y ?)

sure , definitely we would advise to join the rally ; we understand what you feel ; we had been hesitating because we had seen the emyr rally and we didn't like to be so quick we didn' want  to dress for galas every night  we wanted to  be free... but the vasco da gama rally was perfect ; we joined it twice and that was super ; we sailed with our own boat for 2 month and then jumped on friends'boat   as  crew to erytrea ,that was the 1st vascodagama rallye ; when the 2nd v.da gama rally arrived in cyprus on the way to the red sea ,we were on the hard preparing pandora (our boat ) to sail to lebanon and a french catamaran arrived on the same day : we advised them to join the rallye and they asked us to join them as crew . we left our boat and went onboard the catamaran as crew for the 2nd rally. Both times , it was perfect ,great ...The leader  : LO s/y MISTRAL is efficient ; he perfectly knows the pbs of winds and seas on the way from turkey to india ; he also knows the administrations and administrators of the different countries . he has been sailing several times on his own from turkey to india and back . He is competent , calm , efficient , firm with the administrations but humble and not proud , The advantages of joining THAT rally : the safety , no struggle with the administrations  for visas ...good prices negociated in advance by LO , freedom : for ex we left port said together (22 boats ); in suez we had a captain meeting where lo gave us advice for the next step ..and then we were free to sail on our own or with 2 or 3 boats to the next meeting point  8 days later but everyday at 9 o'clock we had a chat on the vhf to be sure everybody was ok ; if somebody needed a sparepart or advice in mechanics or electricity  he could get them ...

even if you pay for this rally you will get your money back through discount along that journey ; Lo is not making money through that . If you need more informations ask me precise questions ,I'll answer . Daniel , my husband and I are  French ; we are at the moment at home in France ( in Toulon ) ; we will leave soon and will be in northern cyprus and then south east turkey  Alanya in May . hope to meet you one day or read you again soon.
MONIQUE

She continues....

hi , after rereading your mail  I come back to you : tell me what story you heard of and I will answer precisely . We went to jordan with the 1st rally that was great . we sailed back to jordan on our own to see it again but in fact we had already well seen the 2 wonderful places : petra and wadi rum . The 2nd rally didn't go to jordan but 3 boats decided to go and they left suez  before us and joined us 10 days later in hurghada . we spent a week in port said , some days in ismailia ( 1 hour from cairo by regular bus ) , some days in suez , 10 days in hurghada , enough time to visit luxor , 15 days in port ghalib : enough time to visit aswan  and abusimbel . It is very cheap  to travel in egypt . Lo doesn't organise trips but can help and everybody is free to rest to clean , repair or travel . We stop and arrive together in the marina's
MONIQUE

If I get any more replies I'll post them up.

Liz

---

_________________
www.followtheboat.com

[Lyra]

Just received in from s/y Marvin:

Thanks for your mail. I think you do the rigt thing to informe you very wel and not only listen to roomers ore one opinion.

Our expirions with te rally we're very good.  Lo (the leader) is a very democratical leader so we had a lot of freedom during the rally. That means that we had, after a good breefing,often a free sail to the next place where we met the group again. This do not means that you are just on your own. On all the anchor places you met other rally members and every morning Lo was on the rally net that he had organised from the start. We had enough time to stay on anchor for a koppel of days for a dive or to enjoy. Three boots even went to Acaba on there own and joined the rally after that again. We joined the rally in Turky and left in Port Galib.

We participated the rally because we did not have any experiences with Egyte and sail between coral reefs. Lo teached us a lot about both. He sailed already 2 or 3 times to India through the Red sea and back to Turky so he knows this water very well

In several Marina's we could stay for free and there we're several party's, organised by the harbour officials or agents.

Compaire the price of the rally and all the things that you get for free during the rally than I think  it is cheaper to joine the rally than sail on your own.
If you like to visit Cairo, Luxor, Aswan or make a Nile cruise you can organise that by your self if you like. A lot of rally members did so. Lo asked some agents to arrange excursions but that was rather expensive so nobody joined that, exept the trip to Cairo

Lo didn't act if we're childeren. All  participations has there own responsibility. To join the rally your boot must be in a good condition, and your liferaft must not been out off date, see rally rules. Lo did not check that if it is so. When you like to join a rally like this you know that you are not sailing on a small lake. 2 boots hit a rif very serious. One survived because off the help off other railly members who were near by. The other was lost but the peopel were saved because a dive boot and other rally members were close by. In both cases they made mistakes with the navigatoin. It has nothing to do with the leadership of Lo. He sailed always in the end of the group.

In most groups off peopel there are peopel who do not match. Also in our group there was one. He trayed to make it very difficult for Lo and said a lot of nasty things about the rally. That is a pitty. He even wrote some artikels in a magazine about the rally, but that was only his opinion. I think that most of the members of the rally 2007/2008 had a great time.

I think when you like to cross the Red Sea on a save and relexed way than the Vasco da Gama rally is a verry good option.

Kind regards Rien en Gerda van Zuilen
sy Marvin
_________________
www.followtheboat.com

[Lyra]

This from Lady Coppelia

Hello Liz,

I would not suggest you try it on your own. It can be done but not without difficulties and additional cost. The Egyptions are very good at hiking up the prices and always wanting baksheshe, There life style is bartering and they state a high price expecting you to bargain. A pain at times but not a problem when you know how to handle it.

Lo on the VDGR is very good at smoothing paths and getting good group discounts. This will be his 3rd rally. You will also get some good receptions at the canal and elsewhere.

If the has had any problems it is always with one of the other yachts stiring things up unfairly.

I came down for my first time with Lo and a wonderful time. I also did the second rally with Lo and on that one yacht upset everyone, caused trouble on the canal, we later found that he caused trouble on a previous trip through the canal, and generaly upset everyone.

Yes go with the rally, it is fun.

Egypt it is great if you accept it for what it is.

I have been here 4 winters an I am staying in Turkey next winter to get work done on the boat so may not see you.

I hope you enjoy the trip.

Regards

Tony

And this from s/v Sepia

Dear Liz,
With so much pleasure we think back of the Rally!
We enjoyed the company of the group, and made a lot of very dear friends.
And if we wanted to go our own way (we are divers, with compressor) we just told Lo Brust, the leader, from s/y Mistral. He allways gave us all the freedom we wanted.
Lo allways stayed with the boats, that needed help most.
He is a very helpfull man, with a lot of experience. We respect and like him very much.
We had a lot of marvellous diners, with dance and music, for free!
The money was really ok, not too much! Sometimes the prices changed a little, because they were based on last years prices.
But we had also several free stays in the marina's!
Another advantage was, that there was a lot of know-how on all the boats. We helped each-other, with repairing engines, taking care of ill, or wounded people etc.
So we advice you to join the Rally.
It certainly was worth while!
Have fun, enjoy your trip!
Marijke and Frank
s/y Sepia.
_________________
www.followtheboat.com

[Lyra]

post removed following request from information provider
_________________
www.followtheboat.com

[Lyra]

information deleted by administrator following request from information provider

---

_________________
www.followtheboat.com